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You've delved into the Polyvagal Theory. You understand how your nervous system shifts through safety, flight, fight, and shutdown. Polyvagal Theory is validating, normalizing knowledge. But then comes the crucial question: Okay, now what? Understanding why and how  your body reacts is powerful, but real transformation happens when you apply  that knowledge daily. You're in the right place if you're wondering how to bridge that gap. This article will teach you how to easily identify your Polyvagal state. This blog article is based on the above Stuck Not Broken podcast episode. This article (and the podcast episode it's based on above) is the first in a series designed to give you small, actionable ways to apply Polyvagal Theory daily. This blog will explain: why identifying your state is important > the primary states of the Polyvagal Theory > the Polyvagal mixed states > Why does identifying your Polyvagal state matter? Why does this matter? Because knowing your state reveals its needs, opening potential avenues for self-regulation . Identifying these states in real-time can be tricky, especially if recognizing emotions or bodily sensations is challenging. It's also common to confuse states like freeze and shutdown . Let's clarify things by walking through the official Polyvagal primary and mixed states (plus one logical addition!). For each state, I'll pose a question. Consider your honest, immediate response. The Primary States: Your Foundational Nervous System Responses 1. Do you feel like connecting? This is the hallmark of the Safety  state (mediated by the Ventral Vagal pathway). Feeling like connecting means you might be ready to engage with: Your Environment:  Mindfully using your senses – smelling a candle, tasting a peach, watching the rain fall, gazing at the horizon. Yourself:  Noticing your inner sensations as you interact with the environment. Does smelling the candle bring warmth? Does looking at the horizon ease your breathing? Do you feel lighter and more likely to smile? It also includes mindfully experiencing your emotions, even difficult ones. Others:  Feeling open to co-regulation through hugs, smiles, eye contact, or reaching out to someone. If you answered "yes" to connecting in any of these ways, you likely have significant Safety state activation . This state isn't just about connection; it also fuels relaxation, playfulness, and focused work. 2. Do you feel like escaping or aggressing? If connection doesn't resonate right now, perhaps the urge is towards movement – either away  from something (escape) or towards  something with force (aggression). This points to Sympathetic Activation (Flight or Fight) . You might need space. Leaving provides it directly; aggression creates it by pushing others away. These impulses aren't always overt actions; they manifest in thoughts and feelings, too: Flight:  Nervousness, anxiety, replaying past interactions, worrying about the future. Fight:  Anger, irritability, frustration, snapping at loved ones, feeling restless or unable to sleep due to activation, working out intensely without relief. If this sounds familiar, your sympathetic nervous system is likely dominant, providing mobilization energy. 3. Do you feel like collapsing? Maybe connecting feels impossible, and mobilizing feels exhausting. Instead, you feel an urge to collapse, retreat, and reduce stimulation. Lights feel too bright, sounds too loud, and people too overwhelming. You can't handle another thing. This indicates a state of disconnection, likely Shutdown  (mediated by the Dorsal Vagal pathway). You might feel heavy, numb, or want to disappear. At its extreme, this can involve dissociation. This state often arises when facing overwhelming situations (past or present) where safety, fight, or flight weren't viable options. You likely have one of these above primary states – Safety, Flight/Fight, or Shutdown – as your dominant baseline state. No one exists in 100% activation of any of these states. That's not realistic. But we can say one has more activation of one of the primary states than another. But the primary states can mix, just like paint colors. These mixtures create mixed states . The Polyvagal Mixed States: Blending the Basics You typically live in one of the mixed states, though a primary state may dominate the mixture. Let's review the mixed states and see which one(s) you identify with most. 4. Do you feel ready to have fun with someone else? Feeling spontaneous, fun, or imaginative, and  wanting to share that with others? This is likely Play . Play is a mix of Safety + Flight/Fight . It's mobile and active (sympathetic energy) but contained within a framework of connection and social norms (safety). Think friendly competition, shared laughter, and collaborative creativity. Co-regulation with a safe other is key here. 5. Do you feel motivated? What if you have that energized, creative, productive feeling but you're alone? This is Motivation . Like play, motivation combines Safety + Flight/Fight . You're using sympathetic mobilization energy, but directing it towards a task, project, or personal goal (like improving your workout). It feels confident and excited. While not an official polyvagal mixed state, it logically fits – it's essentially "play" minus the co-regulation variable. You still have safety allowing for focused energy and creativity. Now, what happens when Safety mixes with the immobility of Shutdown? 6. Do you feel reflective and mindful? Are you curious about your inner world? Aware of your senses and your body's responses? Able to sit quietly and just be ? This suggests Stillness . Stillness is Safety + Shutdown . It's the capacity to be immobile without  feeling threatened or collapsed. It allows for contemplation, meditation, rest, sleep, or simply sitting calmly. You're likely experiencing some level of stillness right now as you read this. It can range from deep, present-moment awareness to simply being settled enough to use the restroom. 7. Do you want to connect closely with someone else? Do you feel able to hold someone, look into their eyes, truly listen, or receive that kind of deep connection? This points towards Intimacy . Intimacy is Safety + Shutdown + another variable of Co-regulation . It involves safe, comfortable immobility with  another trusted person. This isn't just physical intimacy (though it includes it); it's also deep emotional sharing and connection. Think holding hands during a movie, a comforting hug, or the safe space shared in therapy or between a parent and child. The feeling of safety projected by and  received from the other person is crucial. Play, Motivation, Stillness, and Intimacy all involve the Safety state. But what if Safety isn't active? 8. Do you feel out of control or overwhelmed? Feeling panicky, rageful, or like your emotions are intensely overwhelming and you're "losing it"? This might be Freeze . Freeze occurs when Flight/Fight + Shutdown  are active simultaneously, without  the buffering presence of Safety. It's like slamming the accelerator and brake simultaneously – immense energy trapped within immobility. Freeze can be: Fight-flavored:  Chronic underlying rage that explodes easily. Flight-flavored:  Chronic underlying panic, potentially escalating into full panic attacks. Freeze manifests as rage (not just anger), panic (not just anxiety), and overwhelm (not just stress). Even startling someone can momentarily trigger a freeze response. 9. Do you placate or appease others? This involves two related concepts often seen in inescapable threatening situations (like abusive households or hostage scenarios): Appeasement  and Fawn (or Placating) . Appeasement:  Trying to create a pseudo-connection with a threatening person, convincing them you're on their side to reduce danger. Hypothesized to involve all  primary states (Safety, Flight/Fight, Shutdown). Fawn/Placating:  Positioning oneself as non-threatening and submissive, anticipating the other's needs, trying to remain invisible. What's Your Dominant Polyvagal State? Take a moment to reflect. Which of these descriptions resonates most strongly with your typical daily experience? Understanding the Polyvagal Theory is the first step. Applying it by identifying your state is where the power lies. Spend the next week simply noticing. Ask yourself throughout the day, or reflect in the evening: "What state am I in right now? What state was I in earlier?" No judgment, just observation. This practice of identification is foundational. Once you can recognize your state, you can begin to understand its needs and explore ways to gently shift towards greater safety and regulation. The Unstucking Academy If you're new to the Polyvagal Theory, looking to deepen your learning, and want to connect with others, then the Foundations Membership is just for you . For only $10/month, you can learn through two courses, join Justin and others in a monthly Q&A, participate in Daily Growth challenges, and discuss with others in the forum. Learn more about the Unstucking Academy >   Read this next: Polyvagal Theory for Everyday Life Tip 2: Validate & Normalize If you liked this Polyvagal Theory Tip for Everyday Life, you'll love number 2! It teaches you to enhance the cues of safety around you. Read tip 2 > Q&A What's the main difference between Shutdown and Freeze? They both sound immobilizing. While both involve a sense of immobility, think of it like this: Shutdown  feels more like the power draining out – a collapse, disconnection, numbness, or feeling heavy and empty. Freeze , on the other hand, feels like being stuck with high  energy, like hitting the gas and brake pedals simultaneously. Read this blog for more > Can I be in more than one state at the same time? Sometimes I feel a mix of things. Absolutely! That's exactly what the "mixed states" describe. States like Play (Safety + Flight/Fight), Stillness (Safety + Shutdown), and Freeze (Flight/Fight + Shutdown) are all examples of primary states blending together. It's very common to feel these nuances and combinations rather than just one 'pure' primary state. Your body is dynamic! Is the goal just to be in the Safety state all the time? Nope. While we definitely want more access  to the resources of the Safety state (connection, calm, clarity) and the ability to return to it more easily, the other states (Flight/Fight and Shutdown) have essential protective functions. The ultimate goal isn't to eliminate defensive states but to build nervous system flexibility . This means having the capacity to shift between states appropriately for the situation and, crucially, not getting stuck chronically in defensive states when safety is  actually available. The Building Safety Anchors course helps you build the strength of your safety state. Is there a place for me to go to learn more about the Polyvagal Theory and connect with others? Yes! The Foundations Membership in the Unstucking Academy is the perfect place. For only $10/month, you can learn through two courses, join Justin and others in a monthly Q&A, participate in Daily Growth challenges, and discuss with others in the forum. Quotes from this Blog: Understanding why and how your body reacts is powerful, but real transformation blossoms when you apply  that knowledge daily. Knowing your state reveals its needs, opening potential avenues for self-regulation. Just like primary paint colors mix to create new shades, these primary nervous system states can combine, creating nuanced 'mixed states.   Author Bio: Justin Sunseri is a licensed Therapist and Coach specializing in trauma relief. He hosts the Stuck Not Broken podcast  and authored the Stuck Not Broken book series . Justin is passionate about the Polyvagal Theory and proudly serves on the Polyvagal Institute 's Editorial Board. He specializes in treating trauma and helps individuals get "unstuck" from their defensive states.

Have you ever experienced this? Shaking uncontrollably while you're crying? You're not the only one. My therapy clients often bring this up. I'm going to address what's happening when we cry typically, then address what is happening when we cry uncontrollably. People report different types of experiences when they cry. There is no one way to cry that's best for all of us. My therapy clients tell me they go into uncontrollable shakes, some have said they isolate in a bathroom and some report going into a destructive rage. Crying is different for all of us and completely normal and even a possibly necessary part of climbing the Polyvagal ladder . But why the shaking? Check off what you're learning through the Polyvagal Checklist download below. Join the Stucknaut Collective for free and gain instant access to a course on trauma recovery, practical Polyvagal Theory resources, and exclusive downloadable tools to support your healing journey. Why we cry Crying is potentially and commonly an aspect of emotional releasing. Like when we grieve, or when we’re letting go of some deep sadness. Crying often comes with it. To understand why, it’s important to understand what the Polyvagal ladder is and the function of crying. The Polyvagal ladder is a metaphor for the mammalian autonomic nervous system. There are three autonomic pathways in the ANS, including the ventral vagal social engagement system, the sympathetic flight/fight system and the dorsal vagal immobilization system. The safety system at the top of the ladder, flight/fight in the middle and shutdown at the bottom. These three states have unique physiological, emotional, cognitive and behavioral aspects to them. For example, when in the social engagement system, mammals impulsively connect with each other. There may be an experience of calm or happiness or belonging. Muscles relax while facial muscles show smiles, listening, surprise and more. In a flight/fight state, there is a tensing in preparation to mobilize the body to get to safety. In shutdown, there is an emptiness as the body slows down to conserve resources in a possible death feign. Two of these pathways can be active at the same time, something called a mixed state. You can learn a lot more about mixed states and the other fundamental Polyvagal Theory information in my Polyvagal 101 course. It’s essential learning for those in the helping professions and also for those who are doing their own recovery, where through a professional or not. For now, let’s focus on the mixed state of freeze. Freeze Freeze is a combination of shutdown and mobilization. The body is immobilizing while also in a flight/fight activation. Think about the last time you were in a dentist’s chair. You may have had tense muscles, but were immobilized while a drill or pick was in your mouth. Your muscles are prepared to run or fight, but your body is also stuck in place in immobilization. That’s a minor example of a mixed state. Of course, you can ultimately choose to get up and walk away. And there is an end. And you’re not actually in significant danger. Once the procedure is done, you get up, make small talk, exchange smiles and walk out into the sunlight outside. You’re not traumatized and the activation you felt in your muscles eases. Now imagine that the tension in the muscles doesn’t ease and gets “frozen” into your body. That tension - the flight/fight activation - stays within the body. It’s frozen at a certain moment in time and can be triggered by aspects of the event. Like, if you saw the dentist outside of the office, that flight/fight activation could resurface. Or if you heard one of the songs that was playing in the background during the procedure, then it could be activating as well. These are called “triggers,” something that is very common in trauma. Eventually, that activation from the dentist’s chair needs to discharge. Why we shake when we cry If we were wild animals, we would simply shake it off. Seriously. That’s it. Wild animals are excellent at listening to the needs of their bodies. If their body has a freeze experience, they shake it off. They shake and tremble, releasing the stuck state and returning to a self-regulated state. Here’s an example that Peter Levine uses - Of course, humans are animals still. We still retain the capacity to shake off stuck traumatic energy. Humans make things a lot more complex in the process, like shaming and guilting ourselves. And the traumatic events we endure are much more complex than the survive-or-die variety that wild animals endure. Our traumatic events tend to often include things like rejection, shame, humiliation, deception and more. Things that animals don’t do to each other. There’s layers to our traumas, oftentimes generational. So simply shaking it off is not really a practical avenue for us. At least, not all at once. This is compounded by the fact that we also keep ourselves stuck in traumatized states. We tell ourselves reinforcing stories, like “I shouldn’t have been there” or “I deserved it.” This type of shaking and trembling is best for stuck shock trauma that comes from a freeze state. I haven’t found it all that useful for returning sympathetic energy, like for someone who is coming out of a stuck shutdown state. Instead of shaking it off, that person needs to welcome it. Regardless of all this, human beings do nevertheless shake off their frozen energy. It’s called crying. At least, it could look like crying. We can definitely do the polar bear type of shaking like in the video, but we typically don't. (I consider that more of a "pure" or first level form of trauma releasing.) Like I said at the outset, crying is “an aspect of emotional releasing.” But it’s not just emotionally releasing something, there is an autonomic shift happening. Stuck freeze energy is discharging. Think about it - when humans cry, we go through physiological shifts, just like the polar bear in the above video. Breathing spontaneously changes, from heavier to lighter. There is a tensing of our muscles and often full-body heaves. We tighten and constrict. Fluid discharges from our eyes. Our awareness goes from highly constricted and narrow to fuller. And we may even have an impulse to connect with another during or after a cry. Really, we shake and tremble. It’s a full-body releasing of stuck frozen energy. If done successfully. If you can successfully cry, then it eventually stops. Eventually, there is an ease in breathing and a return to being grounded in the present moment. I often see my therapy clients do some crying and then shift into laughter as their autonomic nervous system climbs into a state of safety and social engagement. For the person grieving in sadness, it turns into appreciation and a pleasant memory comes to their mind. Crying is a normal and maybe even necessary part of this autonomic shift. If you want to learn more about the Polyvagal ladder and other Polyvagal essentials, I’ve got my free Polyvagal Intro and my Polyvagal 101 course.

The intersection of depression and polyvagal theory  offers profound insights into the ways our nervous system responds to perceived threats. This perspective not only deepens our understanding of depression but also provides a framework to conceptualize how our bodies and minds adapt to extreme stress. One key concept in polyvagal theory is shutdown , a state that parallels many symptoms of depression. In this blog: what is shutdown in Polyvagal Theory? the biological purpose of shutdown depression and Polyvagal Theory why humans get stuck in shutdown the role of dissociation in survival Polyvagal Theory and healing depression a compassionate framework for depression What is Shutdown in Polyvagal Theory? According to polyvagal theory, our autonomic nervous system follows a hierarchy of responses  to stress: Safe and Social State (Ventral Vagal Activation):  In this state, we feel connected, calm, and able to engage socially. Flight and Fight Responses (Sympathetic Activation):  When safety is compromised, the body prepares to mobilize energy—either to flee or to fight. Shutdown (Dorsal Vagal Activation):  If neither fleeing nor fighting is viable, the body enters a state of immobilization. This is the last-resort survival strategy , often associated with dissociation, numbness, and profound energy conservation. The Biological Purpose of Shutdown Shutdown is the body’s way of preparing for survival in situations perceived as inescapable. This response can be observed in prey animals during life-threatening encounters. Shutdown example: a gazelle immobilized by a predator may go limp, appearing dead, which could increase its chance of escaping if the predator becomes distracted. For humans, shutdown can manifest as feelings of numbness, dissociation, and a lack of motivation—features that overlap significantly with the symptoms of Major Depressive Disorder (MDD). Depression and Polyvagal Theory: the Shutdown Link Polyvagal theory provides a lens to understand how the symptoms of depression might reflect a state of biological shutdown. Below, we’ll explore how diagnostic criteria for depression (based on the DSM-5) align with this theory: 1. Depressed Mood Shutdown is characterized by an absence of joy, connection, or energy. When the nervous system perceives no path to safety, these feelings become biologically unavailable. Evolutionarily, joy and connection are irrelevant when the body prepares for death. 2. Loss of Interest or Pleasure Enjoyment and curiosity require access to a safe and social state. When the brain is shut down, it prioritizes survival through collapse and conservation, leaving little room for pleasurable pursuits. 3. Significant Weight Changes or Appetite Changes Shutdown slows metabolism as part of the body’s energy conservation strategy. A decrease in appetite might reflect this biological slowing. Alternatively, overeating could be a coping mechanism, potentially stimulating the ventral vagal system (associated with safety). 4. Slowing Down of Thought and Movement This reflects the observable lack of energy and reduced engagement common in shutdown. Individuals may appear disconnected, avoid eye contact, and show diminished physical and mental activity. 5. Fatigue or Loss of Energy Shutdown is inherently energy-conserving. The body withdraws resources from higher-level functioning, leaving individuals feeling lethargic and incapable of action. 6. Feelings of Worthlessness or Guilt "Story follows state," as Deb Dana explains. In shutdown, the mind generates narratives consistent with the body’s state—leading to thoughts of incompetence, worthlessness, or excessive guilt. 7. Difficulty Thinking or Concentrating Safe and social states are essential for critical thinking and decision-making. These cognitive functions become inaccessible in shutdown, contributing to indecisiveness and mental fog. 8. Recurrent Thoughts of Death Shutdown can intensify thoughts of death, aligning with the body's perception of an inescapable threat. This can be a dangerous state, necessitating professional intervention. Why Humans Get “Stuck” in Shutdown Unlike animals, which often recover quickly from shutdown, humans can remain trapped in this state due to cultural, emotional, and social factors. Chronic stress, unresolved trauma, or a lack of supportive environments can prevent individuals from climbing back up the autonomic ladder to safety and connection. The Role of Dissociation in Survival Dissociation, a hallmark of shutdown, serves a survival purpose. By numbing pain and creating a sense of disconnection from the immediate threat, the nervous system enables the possibility of escape when conditions improve. However, prolonged dissociation can hinder emotional and physical recovery. Polyvagal Theory and Healing from Depression Understanding depression through the lens of polyvagal theory highlights the importance of reconnecting with the body  and activating the safe and social state . Practices that stimulate the ventral vagal system, such as: Social engagement  (e.g., therapy, community support) Mindful movement  (e.g., yoga, tai chi) Breathing exercises Co-regulation  with trusted individuals These interventions can help individuals move out of shutdown and begin the journey toward safety and connection. Polyvagal Theory: a Compassionate Framework for Depression By framing depression as a state rooted in the nervous system’s attempt to protect us, polyvagal theory offers a compassionate perspective. It reminds us that symptoms like fatigue, numbness, and dissociation are not signs of failure—they’re survival mechanisms. If you or someone you know is struggling with depression, it’s essential to seek professional help. This article is for informational purposes only and should not be used to self-diagnose or replace medical advice. Understanding the connection between depression and polyvagal theory  can help us approach healing with greater empathy, offering a roadmap to rediscover safety, connection, and vitality. Further reading Complete DSM and Polyvagal Theory episode list Adaptations to a Stuck Polyvagal State References in episode Major Depressive Disorder criteria > metabolism significant slowing > Clear connection between Major Depressive Disorder and: obesity, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes, heart attack > metabolic syndrome > Obesity greatly increases the risk of diabetes > Author Bio: Justin Sunseri is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Coach specializing in trauma relief. He hosts the  Stuck Not Broken podcast  and is the author of the Stuck Not Broken  book series . Justin is also a member of the Polyvagal Institute's Editorial Board.

This is a segment from my Polyvagal One Pagers free PDF in my File Share. There are more short lessons on the fundamentals of the Polyvagal Theory in that PDF as well. These are useful for your own short lessons, classes you might teach or handouts you might give out at a seminar or workshop. When these autonomic state shifts occur, we create a story to explain why. It may sound something like this: “The teacher hates me. There’s no point in trying.” “I deserved it.” “I’m worthless and unlovable.” “I shouldn’t have been there.” “I must have wanted it because I didn’t say no.” These stories are there to explain the world and attempt to make sense of what caused the autonomic state shift . However, these stories do not necessarily reflect reality - they serve the function of creating an explanation and possibly minimizing the overwhelming nature of the state shift. Unfortunately, these narratives can add to the problem by keeping the survivor in their defensive autonomic state. The narrative can unintentionally act as a reinforcer. There’s the actual event that happens, the autonomic shift in response to the event and our perception of the event, then the narrative that the survivor creates to explain the state shift. Check off what you're learning through the Polyvagal Checklist download below. Join the Stucknaut Collective for free  and gain instant access to a course on trauma recovery, practical Polyvagal Theory resources, and exclusive downloadable tools to support your healing journey. Our autonomic states also directly influence our thoughts throughout a normal day. These “stories” are not just in relation to traumatic events . In our state of safety, our thoughts will be more empathetic, understanding, validating and normalizing. In a flight/fight state, thoughts will be more anxious, catastrophizing, avoidant or aggressive. And in a shutdown state, thoughts will be pessimistic, lacking hope or belief, and devoid of purpose. The phrase “story follows state” in relation to the Polyvagal Theory is from Deb Dana, LCSW . I did two interviews with her you can watch or listen to as well - interview 1 with more on "story follows state" interview 2 with info on her second book and COVID-19 For even more information on the Polyvagal Theory, check out these other resources I have: You can download a 1-page Polyvagal Theory resource in my File Share . There's this and many many other one-pagers for you to use. The Polyvagal 101 page the Polyvagal Theory on the Stuck Not Broken podcast , episodes 101-109 plus everything else I have in the blog and the Polyvagal 101 course below

Hey Justin! A psychologist I talk with includes one more category on top of the "flight/fight/freeze" - "Camouflage” or “Pretend.” In this state, we’re emotionally distressed, physically exhausted, or otherwise at our wits end, but we never tell anyone due to a (true or false) belief that we’ll be attacked/rejected if we show vulnerability.  My question is: how does this state affect which nervous system state we operate from? Additionally, people can be in this state of repressed overwhelm while successfully socializing (interpreting social cues and modeling accurate facial expressions/voice tone/etc). Could this be maintained simply by oscillating between states? Or do you think this is purely a manifestation of a shutdown state? Basically, a significant portion of us are living in fear of vulnerability and it’s definitely affecting the nervous system. Thanks for the question! I can't recall anyone I've read that directly comments on something of these things you're bringing up. So this is really me sort of brainstorming here. Let's see what happens! Let's address these in small chunks: ...we’re emotionally distressed, physically exhausted, or otherwise at our wits end, but we never tell anyone due to a (true or false) belief that we’ll be attacked/rejected if we show vulnerability.  The fear of rejection or aggression is a Story that we create to match our state. If we're already down the ladder, we'll have some level of avoidance, aggression or shut down. Fearing rejection or aggression has the vibe of shut down to me and that's basically what you alluded to as well. It just feels like someone trying to hide or be invisible. And this experience of wanting to be invisible or hide is definitely a shut down experience. Yet this person (any of us) can also utilize their social engagement system effectively enough to get by. I'll build on this... how does the camouflage state affect which nervous system state we operate from? The "camouflage" or "pretend" state doesn't sound to me like a true stand-alone state, like F/F/F. What it sounds like to me a is a combination of social engagement and one of the other states . So social engagement plus F/F/F. But I don't know which one is more dominant - the safe and social system or one of the Fs. I know we can combine state (play = social engagement + flight/fight and stillness = social engagement + freeze). But these two little math equations rely on the fact that the social engagement piece is the dominant one. So this brings us to an interesting proposition... Can we combine safety with FFF, with the FFF being more dominant than the safety? In essence, the safety system would be used to reinforce the protective nature of being in freeze or flight/fight. Again, this is just me brainstorming and putting things out there for us to process. I've never read on anything like this, but it kinda makes sense. So in this light then, yeah, "camouflage" kinda makes sense. Not as its own state in and of itself. Like, (wow, I'm realizing I'm writing like I talk) not as its own autonomic nervous system state. But the inner/outer experience of a combination of safety and defense, with more emphasis on defense. In contrast, relaxation is an experience of safety + shut down (stillness). And invisibility is an experience of shut down. To answer the first question then, " how does this state affect which nervous system state we operate from?" My answer as of now is that this is a combo of states with the defensive states being the primary mover . Someone in a "camouflage" state is using their social engagement to blend in as a way of maintaining their defensive state and prevent going further down the polyvagal ladder. And another wrinkle here is to realize that these 4 states (safety/FFF) are the "pure" versions, but of course we don't exist in 100% safety or FFF. Really, it's degrees of these states that blend together. Watching a horror movie doesn't send us into complete flight, but it activates the sympathetic system enough to hold our breath and lose our facial affect. Again, this is really a new line of thinking for me. I'll have to ask Dr Porges when the day comes where I interview him. I have to actually muster up the courage for that first though. Speaking of which... a significant portion of us are living in fear of vulnerability and it’s definitely affecting the nervous system. I am absolutely terrified to ask Dr Porges, Peter Levine or Deb Dana for an interview. So much so, that I am not even asking them. Now the question to ask here is obviously, "Why aren't you asking them for an interview?" And my responses would be something along the lines of: "I'm terrified," "They'll think I'm a phony" or "They'll be pissed at me for not citing them correctly on the podcast." Are the assumptions true? I have no idea. Probably not. Why are these thoughts there? "Story follows state." These thoughts that I've conjured up are my brain's attempt to explain the state of my nervous system when it comes to asking for an interview. And that state, when it comes to the neuroception of the idea of asking for an interview, feels to me like shut down. When it comes to asking for the interview, my body basically goes into a state of mild shut down, enough to stop the momentum of moving forward with something that I genuinely want. To bring this back to the statement from the listener, it's not the "fear of vulnerability" that affects the autonomic nervous system state... it's already in a state of vulnerability and fear, which might be a state of shut down (or maybe flight). Then whatever thoughts pop into your head are just a reflection of that. Likewise, my body, when it comes to asking for an interview, is already in a state of shut down. But only when it comes to that. Otherwise, I'm not. But when it comes to that in particular, I regard these three, my Polyvagal Trinity, as my intellectual superiors. They are more powerful than me, have more influence than me and more credibility. My neuroception is one of submissive shut down to perceived power. So the excuses I have in my head about why I shouldn't ask for an interview, are just a reflection of that insecurity or submissiveness. By the way, I'll tackle this. I felt the same way before recording my first episode and publishing my first tweet. I'll get to where I need to be, just gotta go through my process. I hope that brings some clarity or at least an interesting angle worth discussing to you, Dear Listener. Thanks again for asking! Justin

Hey Justin, Thank you for the great podcast. I wanted to ask you about the "disgust" thing - did I misunderstand, or is disgust the way to shake off shame? And if so, disgust at what exactly? With yourself? Hi, thanks for reaching out and being a Listener! I truly appreciate the question.  It really makes me look at my understanding and think deeper. Disgust seems to be the experience of the body 1) protecting itself from a toxin or 2) needing to rid itself of a toxin.  So on a practical level, it would be something like poison or rotten food.  Something that tastes bad that we need to get out or something that smells bad we want to keep out. Similar to predators that won't eat a corpse, which is why the tonic immobility is such a good defense for prey. As far as shame and trauma go, I'm understanding disgust as 1) a response to the event that happened (such as disgust of a smell, which acts as a warning) and also 2) the biological cue that there is a toxin within the body (which we may feel during or before vomiting out a poison).  The toxin in the case of trauma would be toxic shame.  Like I said in the episode (based on Peter Levine), shame has a function (like time-outs), but with traumatic experiences, it violates the victims's natural biological shame response.  This is different than the trauma experienced when we lose a loved one.  With grief, we experience trauma (work of Candyce Ossefort-Russell), but without the shame.  Because it's not imposed from another person onto us. I don't think disgust is the mechanism to shake off shame, just like it's not the mechanism to vomit out a toxin.  It's part of the experience of ridding the body of a danger or protecting the body from a danger.  But the shaking and trembling aren't disgust in and of themselves.  Think of the last time you cried. Like, really cried.  Your body probably shook, trembled, took heavy gasps of breath... but you felt better afterward.  You felt lighter.  You were thinking more clearly (I hope so, at least).  You don't need to feel disgust to go through the process. Peter Levine said that disgust is "the gateway to emotions" or something to that effect.  So if we were to stop and notice our disgust...and sit with it and listen to it... it would open us up to something else within us.  And that may be that it acted as a warning to some danger in the environment.  Or that there's something within us that we need to rid ourselves of, like toxic shame. Definitely watch this video from Peter Levine.  He discusses how disgust is an attempt to expel something from the body.  Thanks again for the question.  I hope this was helpful and clarifying. Justin

Hey, Justin. I had a question about Stories - Can Stories be true? Of course! The issue with Stories though, is they follow the State. Let's break this down a bit further - There is a real world event. There's a State shift in reaction to the real world event. A Story pops into our thoughts to explain the State. So in 3, yes, the Story created can be a true reflection of the real event in 1, but the function of the Story is to explain the State shift in 2. Ideally the Story is based on accurate information, but often times it is not. It's based on assumptions, hearsay and our past experiences, among others. But primarily, a Story is based on our State . Our State is going to directly influence the thoughts that pop into our head. If we're in a Safe & Social State, then getting the wrong type of milk in our coffee will have a unique Story to it in comparison to the more defensive States. For example: Safe & Social Story - "The worker made an innocent mistake." Fight Story - "The workers are incompetent idiots." Either of these Stories could be true. Maybe it was an innocent mistake or maybe the worker really doesn't belong in the position and would be better off working somewhere else. Either could be true and there's no way of knowing in this kind of situation. But when it comes to how to resolve the issue, that's different . Using the defensive States as the basis for problem-solving can be disastrous. I think that's where the "trueness" of the Story becomes a factor. To answer the question thought, Yes, Stories can ultimately be true. Thanks for the question and thanks for being a Listener! Justin

Hi Justin,You mention a few times about animals being able to shake off states of freeze or flight or fight. I would really recommend you search Google and YouTube for Traumatic Releasing Exercises. It's essentially a way of inducing bodily tremors to shake off the effects of bodily stress and trauma. I was stuck in a depressive state for a couple of months, which of course corresponds with the freeze response. Anyway, the first time I tried the approach above, I immediately came out of my mood state and back to my energized and happy self. It really was quite extraordinary! Feel welcome to discount this, as I was pretty damn skeptical myself when I first came across it, but the rationale behind it seems to make a lot of sense and fits perfectly with polyvagal theory so I thought you might appreciate it! I don't discount this at all!  I've heard of shaking/trembling as an intervention, but it's not something I am super well-versed in at this point, so I simply don't comment on it because I want to make sure I'm focused on what I'm knowledgeable about and actually using day to day. I actually think that when we cry, it serves the same purpose, even though it's not a conscious attempt to shake or tremble.  But that's exactly what happens: involuntary spasms, involuntary breathing, using our muscles and really releasing some sort of pent up energy.  It's not just fluid coming out of our eyes, it's an entire body experience. And after we successfully cry, we feel better.  Lighter, like something became unstuck.  Especially if it's with a safe person/people.  I think this is a way to climb up the polyvagal ladder, though I haven't seen Dr Porges or Peter Levine or Deb Dana comment on this, just my hunch as of now. Of course, we humans stop this process from happening. We ignore problems, stuff them down deep inside, drink them away and many many other ways to cope. Or if we do cry, we isolate ourselves (which is a neuroception of danger) rather than reconnecting with a trusted person (if we have one). And when we cry, we judge ourselves with labels or tell ourselves to "get over it" or "be strong" (messages from others we've adopted). So crying as an attempt to shake off or tremble gets thwarted even if it begins. Again, this is my two cents. Not endorsed by any polyvagal practitioner or researcher that I've seen so far. Thanks for reaching out!  I hope the podcast has been valuable for you. I definitely will search out the Traumatic Releasing Exercises. Justin

(This post contains affiliate links, meaning, if you click through and make a purchase or sign up for a program, I may earn a commission. This is at no additional cost to you.) Hi Justin, Love your podcast. I’m reading "On Killing," by Lt. Dave Grossman, and he contends there are 4 responses to stress (the fear elicited in combat) (p.7-“The Soldiers Options”).  They are: Fight, Flight, Posture (strut/flex/yell/demonstrate supremacy in some way that is scary but essentially harmless.  Like firing a gun into the sky, eye contact) and Submit (surrender) Interesting question. Here's my two cents and a caveat: I have not worked with soldiers and haven't even come close to experiencing anything they may have outside of working with youths in gangs. That being said... When we say "danger," we're talking about our autonomic nervous system's shifting into sympathetic arousal based on a neuroception of danger from the internal or external environment. With life threat, same thing, but we're shifting further down the ladder into a parasympathetic shut down in response to a neuroception of our lives being in danger, not just our safety. Lt. Dave Grossman would assumedly be referring to sympathetic arousal when he mentions "flight" and "fight," just like the polyvagal theory. But "posture" and "submit" are potentially different. POSTURE "Posture" is the fight response. The key here is that the fight response doesn't mean we are actually fighting. But we're in enough sympathetic arousal and the flight response is inadequate, so we drop down further the ladder into fight. The fight response could also be aggressive words, telling someone off or just physically showing a display of intimidation. Someone in a safe and social state doesn't act this way. Someone in a flight response doesn't act this way. The posturing is inherently aggressive from someone who is already existing in a sympathetic state and is showing fight behavior. Drive down the street of any inner city neighborhood and you'll see this everywhere. With clients that are coming out of their shut down response, they next go into sympathetic arousal. First fight then flight. When they go into the fight behaviors, it's oftentimes shown as aggression, wanting to tell someone off, wanting to put their parents into their place and use the force of words. They'll often fantasize about using violence too - images of hitting someone they don't like for whatever reason. But once they share these images and maybe even role play telling off their parent... the fight energy sort of dissipates (oftentimes through laughter). At least, it does in the safe environment of therapy. And once it does, the client moves into a flight response and their mind now wanders into what it might be like to escape from the situation altogether. What it will be like to move out of the home where their parent is abusive. And after they share an image of that (or make a plan on how to move out), they move into a safe & social connection with me, increasing their eye contact and smiles. Back to posture - If you've ever seen two people about to fight, they basically do what is being described in the "posture" behavior being discussed. They size each other up, square off, puff their chests out, flex their muscles, get in each other's faces, drop their voices to a deep monotone... all sympathetic arousal and all because the flight response isn't going to happen. It's using aggression to cause the other person to submit. SUBMIT Submitting sounds like a shut down response to me. I'm imagining someone tucking their head in and slinking off in defeat, cast away from the group and humiliated. This is different than someone who runs away to safety, burning off their sympathetic energy. Submit could also be someone that is already in a shut down state that doesn't muster the arousal necessary to fight or even posture to fight. But again, being in a shut down state doesn't necessarily mean the person is actually frozen in place or collapses. The person I described, becoming physically smaller and submitting, is using their parasympathetic shut down response. Their bodies are slowing down, their looking downward, they might be dissociating on some level. That person is probably feeling a deep deep pit right in their gut, which is where the shut down circuitry is. I could also see someone submitting out of respect for an authority figure. But that's not really an autonomic response, that's more of an admiration for a mentor. I suppose what would be important in this instance is if it comes from a place of fear and danger or not. Like a student, who isn't going to run from a principal, nor fight the principle, might "shut down" in front of the principle - hanging their head low, tucking their shoulders in, using little to no words and avoiding eye gaze. This is a shut down response which looks like submission. But it's not a separate autonomic nervous system pathway. These responses of flight, fight and freeze look different based on the situation and person. Think of these as categories of responses. Like shut down refers to actual collapse, or death feigning, but also includes fainting and dissociation or submitting. Those are my thoughts, at least. Thanks for the question! Justin

Throughout the podcast, I've been wondering about the tend & befriend state and am interested in how you would break down tend and befriend into flight or fight and shut down. Hi, thanks for the question. First, I'll break down what "tend" and "befriend" are. Then I'll look at how they correspond to the polyvagal theory. But before all that, I need to clarify what is meant by "state." "STATE" When we talk about "state" and the polyvagal theory, we're not talking about behaviors . We're talking about the actual physiological state of the autonomic nervous system. We can tell what state the nervous system is in by the behaviors the person is showing. But the behaviors aren't the state. They're evidence of the nervous system state. Example: two people getting into a fight are in a sympathetic state. The behaviors are punching and kicking, but the state is sympathetic arousal. We only have three autonomic nervous system states: social engagement (ventral vagal) flight/fight (sympathetic) freeze (dorsal vagal) "TEND" & "BEFRIEND" Basically, "...tend' refers to tending to your offspring and 'befriend' refers to seeking out social support during times of stress." ( BetterHelp ). Interestingly, "...the adaptive value of fighting or fleeing may be lower for females, who often have dependent young and so risk more in terms of reproductive success if injured or dislocated. And females of many species form tight, stable alliances, possibly reflecting an adaptive tendency to seek out friends for support in times of stress" (Pyschology Today) . Though the original paper itself says, "men’s social responses to stress are well documented" as well. What's being described here are general behaviors, not autonomic nervous system states . Just like flop, dissociation, collapse, death feigning or a catatonic stiffening are behaviors, but all of them use the freeze state circuitry of the ANS (dorsal vagal). APPLIED TO POLYVAGAL THEORY What autonomic nervous system state do tend and befriend utilize? When we're safe, we use the social engagement system (ventral vagal) to connect with others. We can also use this system to help others reach a neuroception of safety, which is called "co-regulation." We use the social engagement system to make eye contact, coo to a baby, sing lullabies and breastfeed. Sounds like "tend" to me. If we neurocept danger, we drop out of the social engagement system and into a sympathetic state. The primary behaviors of sympathetic arousal are flight, then fight, in that order. Flight uses the legs and fight uses the arms, basically. And we lose access to the social engagement behaviors. The tend and befriend theory focuses on "stress," which is a very general term. I'd say that "stress" is the emotional experience of a mild neuroception of danger. If we feel stress, then we seek out the support of others. This helps us to return to a feeling of safety and back into our social engagement system. Sounds like "befriend" to me. Even though this may be a mild stress, it is enough to trigger some level of the sympathetic state. We mobilize. That's what the sympathetic state is all about - mobilization. We mobilize to seek out support. In times of actual danger (or perceived), what system and what behaviors does a parent use? Obviously the sympathetic state. In particular, they'll use the flight response in order to scoop up their child and get to safety. And they'll use their fight response to become more aggressive and get the predator to back off, before then moving to flight and getting to safety. In times of actual (or perceived) danger, a parent doesn't stop to socialize. They can't. They still use their flight and fight behavioral responses. The tend and befriend behaviors are ideal for relieving the stress that accompanies social isolation. That isolation is a cue of danger, experienced as stress, which then triggers us to seek out safe social engagement in order to relieve that stress. Tend and befriend behaviors are also examples of protective co-regulation, which are necessary to get us into our social engagement system, which optimizes our use of resources for health, growth and restoration. You can read the original "Tend and Befriend Theory" for yourself, of course. I don't think that it actually adds anything new to the Polyvagal Theory, but has a lot of information about things like oxytocin and the importance of attachment. Through the polyvagal lens, it's co-regulation as a way to return to the social engagement state as a first response to mild cues of danger , or "stress."

Hi Justin. My kids often yell throughout the day, even at night. This always sends me into flight. I get major anxiety every time, and when he does it repeatedly I get angry. How do I deal with my state? Hi there. First thing, and I'm sad I have to say this, but I do - thanks for being a parent that doesn't hit their child. That being said, as parents, we do have to do something about our state when it comes to interacting with our kiddos. If you are chronically not in a safe/social state, I'd recommend doing some physical activities with the family when there isn't a crisis going on. In all honesty, there's many different things we can do, there's no one answer. So instead, here's a breakdown of what I do. These are mostly top-down approaches. be aware of the state I am in (top down) stop what I am doing (top down choice) take at least one deep breath (bottom up) remember my parental values (top down) attempt to understand the state of my kids (top down) provide cues of safety to them solve the problem with them (top down) 1. BE AWARE OF YOUR STATE Day to day, I am constantly checking in with myself and my breathing. It's become a habit at this point. I often do random checks of different spots of my body (why is the area behind my ears tense so often?!). I know my body cues well enough to catch it before it turns into a behavior I'll end up regretting. Meaning, when my frustration level goes up, I notice it and immediately do something different , otherwise I turn to yelling. So if your child wakes up in the middle of the night, screaming, how do you feel? Like running? Are there thoughts of danger flitting through your mind? If your teen has attitude, what does your body do? Is there a spike of acid in your belly? Does your jaw clench? Doing the daily check-ins, whether random or not, gives you the awareness of your body. And with awareness, being able to name and describe your body sensations or thoughts, will increase your control over what choices you make in response. 2. STOP WHAT YOU'RE DOING Seriously, just stop what you're doing . If this is a brand new idea to you and you easily go into a rage or want to take off, that probably seems like a dumb recommendation and completely undoable. And I get that. It's still a challenge for me if I'm not at my most safe/social state. Giving in to your frustration is easier and honestly feels way better than attempting to calmly deal with a screaming kid. But it causes more harm in the short and long term. I've simply accepted that stopping what I am doing allows me the opportunity to get to the next step. It's like a transitional moment for me, not a solution to the problem. But before that, my singular goal in this step is to not make the situation worse . If my kids is angry and I join them, the situation itself will probably get worse. And in the longer run, I am damaging my relationship with my family. And that doesn't work for me. If your kids is screaming in the middle of the night, don't make it worse. That's a kid who's terrified and has dropped into their own sympathetic arousal. Cues of safety are going to be more effective and have a longer positive impact on the child, including their ability to tolerate their state the next time. Don't make it worse this time by acting on your impulses to be more aggressive. You have an opportunity to build now for the next time. 3. DEEP BREATHS I know, this one sounds like an idiotic recommendation and seems totally impractical. But it's effective for grounding yourself. I take as many as I need, being still and going a bit more inward. And my kids will notice this, which gives them pause. Usually one nice deep breath with a long exhale is enough for me to focus on the next step. If you need more, do it. This is a good time to think of a memory that brings you some safety . I recommend thinking of a time you held that child as a baby, or the first time they held your thumb or their first game. Just something to remind yourself of how much you love them. Because you do, even if you don't feel it in the moment. Of course, you should be practicing deep breaths throughout the day. I don't do meditation or yoga, it's not really my thing. But consciously controlling my breathing every now and then builds my ability to go to a better space pretty quickly. 4. REMEMBER YOUR PARENTAL VALUES In these moments of intense anger or frustration, I find it helpful to remind myself of my values as a parent. I absolutely will never hit my children. That's an easy one though, and frankly, I have no desire to hit them. If that's something you need to prioritize, please do so immediately. Please. Here's a few others: I parent from a place of love, first and foremost I need to be a safe person, providing safe cues I will be a safe person for them, knowing I am a model for future ones These are typically enough for me to get to the next step. No, it's not this super easy at first. Yes, it gets way easier with practice. There's been times where I've had sort of an internal debate on how to handle a situation, knowing the safe/social route is the right way to go, but also knowing that giving into the flight/fight energy might get me a faster result. Typically, this internal dialogue ends with the safe/social system telling the flight/fight system, "Tough s**t." Ultimately, if I want my kids to be in their own safe/social states, I need to have access to my own. 5. UNDERSTAND THE STATE OF YOUR CHILD The other benefit of being aware of your state is using it as a cue to inform your decision-making. If you feel panic when your kids screams, that's a clue as to where your child is at. They are likely going through something similar and you're now feeling that. Imagine you're at a mall and you hear a baby scream. What happens? Your internal alarms go off, right? Those alarms are there for a reason. Respect them, listen to them, then act. They come from a place of love for your kids. When you slow down, you can be more aware of that fact, then choose how to act. 6. PROVIDE SAFETY CUES BEFORE PROBLEM SOLVING This means provide safety cues directly to them, like being with them, holding them, singing, smiling, using prosody or getting up and moving with them. For teens, it's going to be a lot of facial stuff, like eye contact, being curious and caring. For the kiddo that's awake in the middle of the night, screaming, they may need a prosodic voice and to be held and rocked. I don't exactly have a cookie cutter approach to this, and every child is different, obviously. For my son (4), when I stick my arms out in an offer to hold him, he usually melts and comes to me, even when he's down the ladder a chunk. For my daughter (9), it's listening and giving her some time, then checking in with her and giving some love and positivity after she's self-regulated. 7. SOLVE THE PROBLEM WITH THEM Once you've gained control of yourself, have more of an understanding of where your child is at and you're focused on providing safety cues, now you can attempt to solve the problem. Why is the kid screaming in the middle of the night? Obviously they don't feel safe. And that can be a ton of different things. But once they're in their safe/social state enough , now is the time to process what's going on. It might sound like this - "Hey, I saw tears coming out of your eyes and I heard you screaming, but now you're breathing better. That was really scary, huh? What's going on?" After they give you an answer, do some problem-solving with them. Do the actual solution together, like closing the closet door for a toddler who's scared. For a teen, it might be planning out a homework schedule. Working with them will help build their capacity to stay in or return to a safe/social state the next time. In the long-run, this is building self-regulation. The bigger issue here is that we can't wait until the moment of crisis to worry about our self-regulation. This needs to be done much more often. If we wait for a moment of screaming to happen, then ask "What do I do!??!," it's going to be more difficult to implement these solutions. So practice this stuff well ahead of time and it won't be as overwhelming when the real deal happens. Trust me, I've been there and have (mostly) come out the other end. If you want to learn more, I highly recommend reading (links to Amazon where I got a portion of the sale at no extra cost to you) "Trauma-Proofing Your Kids" by Peter Levine, the miracle trauma healer behind Somatic Experiencing.

I’m trying my absolute best to be the best parent I can but damn it is so hard for me. You're not alone. I honestly believe that each of us parents is doing their best. And yes, that even includes the parents that are abusive (but that doesn't mean it's okay on any level). That is the best they can muster based on the way they were raised, based on where they're at in their polyvagal state and based on their possibilities for change. At the same time, I know damn well they are capable of more. I don't know what your best is though, Reader. I have zero doubt that every parent is potentially capable of being loving, supportive, nurturing co-regulators. We're not all there. And if we are, sometimes it comes and goes. I know it does for me too. So I think that's where we need to start. I truly believe you're doing your best. But I'd have to ask you, are you capable of more? I'm not asking you or any other parent to be perfect. That's just not possible, I don't think. I honestly have no idea what that looks like. Let's just dump that idea right away. Perfect isn't going to happen. So there's some room for "failure" here, for lack of a better term. But again, are you capable of more? Of course you are. If you have a problem with yelling, I know you can reduce it tomorrow. You can. Are we able to agree on that? Are you physically capable of yelling less? Absolutely. So there's some room for failure, but there's also some room for improvement. What I need every parent to do is to make the choice to do one step better today. One step better than you did yesterday. That can look however you want it to look. That might mean you write an "I love you"note instead of not giving any love messages at all. Or maybe playing for 20 minutes with your kiddo instead of anxiously re-cleaning the house or sleeping the day away (real life examples that occur all too often). Are you capable of taking it one step further? Absolutely. Will that be your best? Yup. And can you take it one step further the next day? Heck yes. You do this enough, and your "best" looks a lot better than it did a few months ago. Point being, we're all doing our best. We really are. But we can do better. Answer this for me - Are you capable of being a better parent today than you were yesterday? Can you identify at least one change you can make today? Will you do it? If you answered "yes" to question 3, congrats, you're on your way to being a more efficient co-regulator. If you answered "no" to question 3, that you won't make a small change, I have a follow up question for you... 4. Are you okay with that? Are you okay with doing nothing different today? Are you okay with not taking a small step forward in your parenting? If your answer is "yes," I really can't help you then. That really concerns me, honestly. If you answered "no," then I want you to take away your judgment for a moment and notice that feeling. You're not okay with it. You're not okay with how you are as a parent. That tells me you have some fight in you. Listen to that. Honor and respect it. Notice it. Give it love and nurturance and let it come out. Keep being the best parent you can. Make a small change for the better every day. Forgive yourself for the judgment. Apologize to your kids if you need to. Please go easy on yourself. Slow down. Remind yourself how much you love your kids and let that feeling sweep over you. You are doing your best. And you'll do one better.